Is God present everywhere?
Today, in Sunday School, someone asked an interesting question. Is God present in Hell? Like all orthodox believers, we would all quickly say God is omnipresent, everywhere at all times. The question is then, is God present in Hell? If so, how? Isn't Hell separation from God? God can't be in the presence of sin, right? But isn't Hell the ultimate reality of sin and sinfulness?
I have thoughts, but I would like to get answers from you guys. Flex some theological muscles for me. I will post my thoughts in a couple of days.
I have thoughts, but I would like to get answers from you guys. Flex some theological muscles for me. I will post my thoughts in a couple of days.
posted by Michael D. Estes at 10:37 PM
8 Comments:
I'm going to cheat and refer to Grudem on this one. Grudem argues (p.175) that God is indeed in Hell, and his role in Hell is to punish wicked sinners. Before reacting too harshly against that thought, check out Amos 9:1-4, which Grudem references for biblical support. It's quite a terrifying reality, isn't it?
Praise the Lord for his infinite mercy to his people in Christ!
I agree with Drew. I'd also like to add, since God indeed created everything that exists, he, himself, has to exist somewhat in Hell. He does not make his dwelling there, but he is present in some way. According to Grudem, he is present there to punish. (Insert invitation here)
If god is present in hell, then why can''t a soul in hell repent and go to heaven? Does a person have to do that on Earth in order to go to heaven? I'm not trying to start an argument, i'm just curious as to what the bible says about this.
Mr. McFeely,
Great question. Let me first say that I am not an expert on this subject and I invite my other Christian brothers to help me out here. Scripture frequently calls Hell the place of torment and gnashing of teeth. It is the eternal lake of fire. Interestingly enough, it was prepared for Satan and his demons. It was not prepared for mankind.
It was created sometime prior to the creation of mankind. Satan, which many believe was a type of archangel similar to Gabriel and Michael, vied to overtake God in Heaven and 1/3 of the angels tried with him (I'll give you the Scripture for this if you'd like but I'll have to find the exact reference. I believe it is in Job or an OT book). Of course this attempt of a coup failed and God sent Satan and his demons to Hell for their sin. Satan introduced sin in the spiritual world.
Adam and Eve introduced sin in the material world. Because sin cannot exist in God's immediate presence, those who die in their sins have to go to Hell, away from God. Hell is where un-atoned-for sin resides. However, God sent His Son to be our sacrifice for our sin so that we do not have to experience Hell. The way one has their sin atoned for is a simple act of turning from their sin and placing their faith in Jesus and that He is God.
All that to say when one is in Hell it is simply too late. When one rejects Christ and goes to Hell there is not another chance. Believing at that point that Jesus is God is not faith.
This may seem unfair. God is love (He sent his Son to die for our sins) but he is also just. He has to punish sin since it is an affront and an attack on who He is. The only way to do that is for there to be a place where Sin is destroyed. The story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 captures this well. Hope this helpful.
Thanks for taking the time Charlie.
Mr. McFeely,
I agree that your question is great. In fact, it is not that uncommon in theological circles today. Some argue for something called eventual universalism, which simply means that all people will eventually received Christ as their savior (this implies that even those in Hell will repent). However, this is unlikely since Scripture points to both Heaven and Hell as eternal destinations. I believe that the choice to go to Hell is a willful decision made by each individual; therefore, every person who is there, though it is a place of eternal torment, desires to be there (in some sort of twisted way).
Here is the way my pastor (PCA) back home answered the question:
"This would be my short "Sunday School" answer:
God is indeed present everywhere but there are different aspects of that presence. For example we have the promise, "I will never leave you or forsake you." (Hebrews 13:5, cited from Joshua 1:5) Or we might remember God's promise to Moses, "My presence will go with you." (Exodus 33:14) We might even think of Jesus' word that "Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I will be in their midst." What is the significance of those promises if they don't mean any more than merely a statement of God's attribute of ominpresence? The answer obviously is that this is more than the general statement of God's presence everywhere. These are statements of God's guidance, his fellowship and his blessing. To bring that into sharper focus think of the statements in Revelation, for example Revelation 6:16, where we read the people are "calling on the mountains and the rocks, 'Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb.'" Were those people aware of the presence of God? Yes, but it gave them no comfort or joy. Why? Because the presence was not the presence of blessing, comfort and joyous fellowship, but rather the presence of awful judgement. Now if we take those two different aspects of God's presence (we might call them the presence of blessing and fellowship and the presence of judgement) then we could more easily answer in what sense God is present in heaven and in what sense present in hell. It also gives us room to see how both of those themes can be applied, not in a final and ultimate sense, to here and now. For example it is not inappropriate to ask for God's special presence of blessing and fellowship in worship or prayer times together with other believers; nor is it wrong to ask for a sense of God's special presence of comfort and guidance when we are going through confusing or lonely times. Hopefully this short answer will give some help not only in understanding, but in application of these truths."
Here is my answer:
God's omnipresence necessarily implies that God is present in every place at all times. So, what does that mean about Hell? I liked the way Peter Kreeft approached this question. He explained that obviously God's wrath and judgment were present in a place like Hell. Not only are judgment and wrath present in Hell, but Kreeft argues that God's love is also manifest there. His love is like a flame. For some in Heaven, it purifies. In Hell, it torments. Now, this might sound a little odd, but lets consider it for a moment. Who is in Hell? All those who reject the love of God on earth. Now, God is fully Himself in all places at all times. Therefore, it seems likely that God's love in also in Hell. Those who rejected and desiped God on earth will also experience the love of God in Hell. Just as they hated the offer of God's love on earth so to will they hate the love of God in Hell. In fact, the love of God become more real to them, which is why there are statements in Scripture about wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Feel free to disagree with me. I'm still working this out. However, it seems that we all in agreement that God is present in Hell.
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